How To Be a Mortgage Lending Price Leader

# tactiq.io free youtube transcript

# How To Be a Mortgage Lending Price Leader | Daryle Messina | Loan Officer Playbook EP 4

# https://www.youtube.com/watch/_w5v3PIFVRM

00:00:00.320 Hello everybody welcome back to another

00:00:02.600 episode of season 2 of the loan officers

00:00:05.560 Playbook podcast today I'm joined with

00:00:08.280 Daryl mesina Daryl has been a VP at

00:00:11.080 multiple mortgage Banks and has over 30

00:00:13.839 years of experience in the mortgage

00:00:15.280 industry and is one of the best

00:00:16.960 disruptors I know in the industry

00:00:18.760 welcome darl thanks Michael appreciate

00:00:21.439 you thank you for having

00:00:23.199 me amazing Marl we've known each other

00:00:26.039 for a while now and uh I just really

00:00:28.920 love the way you think about industry I

00:00:30.759 love that you're Forward Thinking um I

00:00:33.399 love that you're starting something new

00:00:36.079 and I just wanted to ask let's get right

00:00:38.760 into it what are some of the trends that

00:00:40.680 you're seeing in the industry right now

00:00:43.200 yeah you know there's a lot of different

00:00:45.160 Trends you know I mean I think if you

00:00:46.719 you talk about like pre pandemic um you

00:00:50.239 know people were moving every seven

00:00:51.640 eight years right I mean that was pretty

00:00:53.600 much the the typical Trend you'd see

00:00:56.120 today people are staying in their homes

00:00:57.600 longer it's close to like 13 years so

00:01:00.840 that's a trend that's really not

00:01:02.160 favorable if you're in the mortgage

00:01:03.519 space we like people moving but you know

00:01:06.159 the rates were so historically low

00:01:08.400 during the pandemic um unless you were

00:01:10.880 asleep at the wheel you know you're

00:01:12.720 sitting on a house with an interest rate

00:01:14.400 in the two threes maybe fours um so I

00:01:18.040 just think that that's that's really I

00:01:20.880 think created a lot of uh stagnation in

00:01:23.759 the marketplace right there's not a lot

00:01:25.240 of people moving so not a lot of

00:01:27.360 Mobility that'll probably change right

00:01:30.040 right um couple of the other bigger

00:01:32.520 Trends I'm seeing is just you go back to

00:01:35.600 the peak of 2021 there's

00:01:37.759 4,000 loan officers in the mortgage

00:01:41.079 industry um you look at the number of

00:01:43.720 loan officers renewed uh and and decided

00:01:47.759 to sign up for 2025 uh it it's down to

00:01:51.880 about 270,000 to 300,000 so that's quite

00:01:56.439 a big shakeup you know so certainly

00:01:59.360 seeing thinning out in the mortgage

00:02:01.520 space for sure yeah I mean let's talk

00:02:04.360 about that for a second that's more than

00:02:06.600 a 50% drop in Workforce like how do you

00:02:10.878 see that affecting the industry going

00:02:12.720 forward yeah I mean you're going to have

00:02:14.920 to figure out a way to be more efficient

00:02:16.959 right I mean at the end of the day um I

00:02:19.280 think people are going to have to be

00:02:21.120 willing to work for less and you're

00:02:23.239 going to have to do do more

00:02:26.000 transactions uh to earn the same amount

00:02:28.360 of money you are Maybe making you know 3

00:02:32.160 four years ago you're going to have to

00:02:33.440 do 3 4X the number of loans you're

00:02:35.599 accustomed to doing uh to to remain

00:02:38.160 relevant in the business I mean that's

00:02:40.000 just I think the trend that you're GNA

00:02:41.560 you're going to continue to see in the

00:02:42.760 business yeah yeah I saw a stats from um

00:02:47.200 what you just mentioned from there's

00:02:48.959 this company that does like MLL stats

00:02:52.159 and most Lo's just close like just a

00:02:55.599 couple of loans like it's really not a

00:02:57.720 lot and it's not a lot and I think that

00:03:00.360 you know we were Our Own Worst Enemy you

00:03:02.599 know um you know the industry in general

00:03:05.360 I mean you can make a lot of money and

00:03:06.720 do very little work so um it's it's it's

00:03:10.080 tough right and if you're somebody that

00:03:11.840 does two to three transactions a month I

00:03:14.400 mean it was possible to have a very

00:03:16.239 comfortable living and spend a lot of

00:03:18.879 time golfing and not a lot of time

00:03:20.840 working um so you know I think that

00:03:23.840 that's going to change I think that it's

00:03:26.040 good that the industry is thinned out

00:03:27.599 right um the people that are left are

00:03:30.080 sincerely going to earn every single

00:03:32.239 penny they make um it's it's definitely

00:03:35.040 changing so you got to work hard every

00:03:37.360 single day um before the r in the twos

00:03:40.439 and threes there's not much to sell

00:03:42.560 Michael so it's pretty pretty pretty

00:03:45.200 pretty easy it's going to sell itself

00:03:47.319 yeah since since you're in it like

00:03:49.040 you've been in it for decades now and

00:03:51.120 you're still actively in it how are you

00:03:53.480 seeing the sentiment to people who are

00:03:56.159 left like L's that are left right now or

00:03:58.799 they do they have a real reality check

00:04:00.560 that hey I need to work harder yeah I

00:04:02.920 think you know everybody I well you know

00:04:05.079 that's an interesting question you know

00:04:06.840 uh I hope so because I think that that's

00:04:09.480 the the reality of the new market um you

00:04:12.360 have to work harder you got to forge

00:04:13.840 more relationships more referral

00:04:15.440 Partners um I don't think this is a

00:04:17.478 situation where you can just have you

00:04:19.279 know five or six agents and and live on

00:04:23.120 one deal every other month and then you

00:04:25.400 know you're supplementing it with

00:04:26.720 refinances re the refinance Market's

00:04:29.000 gone so I think the reality is you know

00:04:32.160 if you've renewed your license in

00:04:35.039 2025 then you know you're all in I mean

00:04:38.479 you're all in and you're going to be

00:04:40.000 working your butt off to to forge more

00:04:42.520 relationships with referral Partners

00:04:44.199 whether it's real estate agents you know

00:04:47.520 uh financial advisors you know divorce

00:04:49.759 attorneys whatever it takes to survive

00:04:52.120 25 so yeah absolutely I totally agree I

00:04:56.639 totally agree and the and and just the

00:04:58.440 couple of minutes that we been talking

00:05:00.560 you've pointed out some really amazing

00:05:03.039 insights and I just want us to take it

00:05:05.440 back to the beginning to what you just

00:05:07.919 got started in the industry like what

00:05:09.720 made you get started um you know back to

00:05:12.680 Young Daryl just taking a Le to the into

00:05:16.080 the industry how was it like for you

00:05:18.160 yeah it was awesome man I mean I was in

00:05:20.280 I was in Consumer Finance for um you

00:05:22.720 know from 94 to 99 and you know Consumer

00:05:26.759 Finance was ex was was an awesome

00:05:29.240 experience it was like just a fire hose

00:05:32.479 of information I mean you learned how to

00:05:34.120 manage profit and loss credit risk um

00:05:37.280 collecting the debt um so you had to be

00:05:40.280 responsible and lend responsibly and you

00:05:42.560 had to learn how to sell and you know I

00:05:45.000 mean if you know anything about the

00:05:46.479 Consumer Finance industry we weren't

00:05:48.759 selling interest rates you know at you

00:05:51.120 know seven eight n% I mean the typical

00:05:54.400 rate on a personal loan was you know

00:05:57.360 maybe as high as 36% and I know I know

00:05:59.759 that sounds like lone sharking but that

00:06:01.960 was like a real business and a real

00:06:03.759 industry so um you know as I learned um

00:06:08.680 the finance space and I was really

00:06:10.960 probably a better collector of the debt

00:06:12.919 Than I Was A salesperson I thought man

00:06:14.960 if I can collect money I should be able

00:06:17.440 to sell money right like give people

00:06:19.400 money in exchange for for an interest

00:06:22.120 rate right so um that was just like such

00:06:25.919 an eye openening experience so I mean I

00:06:28.560 you know starting in super Finance

00:06:30.199 moving over to the wholesale Channel um

00:06:33.080 in in and and being a account executive

00:06:36.639 for a for a mortgage a mortgage bank or

00:06:39.560 wholesale lender that was that was

00:06:41.560 awesome experience too right I got to

00:06:43.720 understand like what it's like to work

00:06:44.919 with a mortgage broker right as an

00:06:47.080 account executive and so I mean I've

00:06:49.039 seen all facets of the industry so I I'm

00:06:52.319 just passionate about mortgage I love

00:06:55.199 the space I think there's tons of room

00:06:58.080 for improvement and

00:07:00.160 you know this right I mean you know and

00:07:02.759 getting to know you I think you know one

00:07:04.479 of the things that you learned uh

00:07:06.080 through your you know education and and

00:07:08.560 doing some work with with banks you

00:07:10.319 learn pretty quickly that you know wow

00:07:12.960 this is like not the most efficient

00:07:14.599 industry in the world right and there's

00:07:16.039 opportunity here so what do you know you

00:07:18.840 know you next thing you know you start

00:07:20.160 an AI company that's super cool in

00:07:23.120 Silicon Valley and that's something to

00:07:25.039 really be proud of and I love

00:07:27.319 entrepreneurship and I think that that's

00:07:29.280 just just I mean to me that's everything

00:07:31.919 you know being able to have autonomy

00:07:33.960 think for yourself and and live and by

00:07:36.360 by your decisions and I always say you

00:07:38.039 know I'm always going to bet on myself

00:07:40.479 100 out of 100 times so yeah you've

00:07:43.879 you've gone through every single or not

00:07:47.560 every single level but most levels of

00:07:49.879 the um mortgage stack like you've been

00:07:53.360 an account executive you've been a

00:07:55.400 collector you've been a VP you I like to

00:07:58.440 say you didn't skip too many steps like

00:08:01.720 come in and then they're straight to se

00:08:03.840 Suite or come in and they're straight to

00:08:05.639 like something so you have experience

00:08:07.280 with every single level and does that

00:08:10.240 shape your perspective compared to let's

00:08:12.680 say other um SE Suite or um director

00:08:15.680 level yeah for sure right I mean I think

00:08:19.039 that you know working in theend in the

00:08:21.080 Independent Mortgage Banking space you

00:08:23.080 know um I stepping away from it today um

00:08:27.120 I certainly understand the challenges

00:08:29.879 that they had and have and will continue

00:08:32.200 to probably have for the foreseeable

00:08:34.279 future and um but there's also

00:08:36.360 challenges on the other side on on the

00:08:38.159 broker space right which is kind of the

00:08:40.120 space that I kind of self self-directed

00:08:43.240 you know I I exited um you know the

00:08:45.640 Mortgage Banking space to start my own

00:08:47.640 brokerage um and for me it was the right

00:08:51.160 decision I mean I can see the writing on

00:08:53.399 the wall right I mean you have these

00:08:56.120 Mortgage Bankers have to limit Staffing

00:08:59.240 um positions like you know VPS things

00:09:02.440 like you don't need them to be honest

00:09:04.079 with you you don't you don't you had

00:09:05.600 there's so much redundancy and so much

00:09:07.519 expense associated with running a bank

00:09:10.120 you can see the right on the wall so you

00:09:12.320 know I made the decision to exit that

00:09:14.480 space and enter into what I felt was

00:09:16.880 like more of an Emerging Market which

00:09:18.680 was like the broker space and it's been

00:09:21.279 it's been slowly gaining market share

00:09:23.440 for a number of years now and you know I

00:09:25.920 think back to you know prior to the

00:09:28.880 housing CR rash 0708 I mean the Brokers

00:09:31.839 had a good good chunk of the market and

00:09:35.399 it's starting to Trend back in that

00:09:36.920 direction I don't advocate for either um

00:09:39.560 I think that they're both fine spaces to

00:09:41.880 work in um for me personally I just

00:09:45.160 thought yeah you know what if I'm going

00:09:46.800 to step away and not manage people any

00:09:49.880 longer um then I want to I want to I

00:09:52.040 want to basically roll my own boat so

00:09:54.200 that's why I decided to start Rebel rate

00:09:55.880 mortgage so sure amazing speaking of

00:09:58.839 Rebel rate mortgage um what what is

00:10:01.360 rubber rate mortgage yeah so we're just

00:10:03.600 a mortgage broker um very small um you

00:10:06.480 know I don't think that we're um trying

00:10:08.880 to really expand we're really um using

00:10:11.839 the platform to I think hopefully be a

00:10:15.440 little bit I don't let me back up I

00:10:17.600 guess a little I don't think there's a

00:10:19.160 huge differentiator in the mortgage

00:10:21.040 space period right and some people argue

00:10:24.760 with me on that um I think we all have

00:10:26.680 access to the same products um I think

00:10:29.000 we all have have access to you know you

00:10:32.120 know um a whole bunch of similarities in

00:10:36.000 banking brokering I think one of the one

00:10:38.560 of the things that um makes us different

00:10:42.760 is we decided to just be a price leader

00:10:46.120 at the end of the day and just say hey

00:10:48.720 you know I don't think service is a

00:10:51.240 differentiator I don't think product is

00:10:53.320 a differentiator so what does that leave

00:10:55.320 us with it leaves us with price um and

00:10:58.680 ultimately just said you know we're

00:11:00.120 going to be a low price leader in a

00:11:01.760 market where people are shopping more

00:11:04.560 right um if you think about Amazon's a

00:11:07.560 great example you go on to Amazon you

00:11:10.320 know people will buy something for 50

00:11:12.320 bucks check out they're not necessarily

00:11:14.120 shopping all over Amazon that pops up

00:11:16.920 they buy it click day later it's on

00:11:19.560 their doorstep right a home's different

00:11:22.120 experience I mean this is a large

00:11:24.600 financial decision people are going to

00:11:26.920 shop that transaction I think people are

00:11:28.839 shoing more and more I think the

00:11:30.959 information is out there to the consumer

00:11:33.200 where it's in their face more like

00:11:35.360 interest rates other Alternatives so I

00:11:38.680 think we just decided to say hey we want

00:11:41.000 to be disruptive and just work for a

00:11:43.079 flat fee per transaction and um try to

00:11:46.440 go out and grab more market share I

00:11:48.000 don't I don't think it makes sense to

00:11:49.480 try to you know be a guy that does two

00:11:52.880 to three loans a month and tries to make

00:11:54.639 a living this is an opportunity to go

00:11:56.680 out there and expand the business and

00:11:59.360 partnered with Realtors but tell a

00:12:01.079 different story I mean every loan

00:12:04.360 officer you know is going to call up and

00:12:06.000 say I got great service right heard that

00:12:08.160 a thousand times before right we execute

00:12:09.839 at a high level every agent's going to

00:12:11.480 say I've heard that a thousand times

00:12:12.720 before right so um you know um pricing

00:12:16.279 is truly our only differentiator that we

00:12:18.440 can actually like Express and clearly

00:12:22.199 demonstrate to a real estate agent and I

00:12:24.360 think we do that very very effectively

00:12:26.560 and people need more buying power right

00:12:28.279 now so right that was actually one of

00:12:32.000 the first conversations that we had when

00:12:35.000 you told me about your pricing model at

00:12:37.800 Rebel rate

00:12:39.079 mortgage and it really attracted me

00:12:41.519 because the first couple of interactions

00:12:44.800 that I had in the IND were people trying

00:12:46.920 to

00:12:47.720 maximize how much commission they can

00:12:49.959 make on a transaction and here you are

00:12:52.519 saying well we're just going to charge

00:12:53.639 your flat fee and then um see how we can

00:12:57.000 scale our business from there right do

00:12:59.360 think that um well let me frame the

00:13:02.480 question don't you think you're living a

00:13:03.839 lot of money on the table doing that um

00:13:06.680 yeah maybe short term but longterm no

00:13:09.920 because the Market's going there right I

00:13:12.079 mean you're going to see technology

00:13:14.440 evolve to the point where people are

00:13:16.040 going to work for Less I mean I don't

00:13:18.120 think AI is going to go out there and

00:13:20.720 replace every facet of the origination

00:13:24.240 process or technology um but I do think

00:13:28.160 it's it's it's going to to definitely

00:13:29.639 put downward pressure on price I mean I

00:13:32.160 think the expectation is you know you're

00:13:34.320 going to have a human in the loop um

00:13:37.079 helping with the transaction and

00:13:38.519 facilitating the transaction But

00:13:41.360 ultimately you're going to be expected

00:13:43.360 to do like I said before 34x the number

00:13:46.639 of units to make the same kind of money

00:13:48.920 you were doing you know four or five

00:13:51.320 loans right you're G to have to maybe do

00:13:52.880 15 to 20 transactions make the same kind

00:13:55.399 of money and I think that that's just

00:13:57.240 the the nature of the business so I

00:13:58.880 don't feel like I'm leaving money on the

00:14:00.160 table I feel like I'm building my my

00:14:02.279 business right um I feel like I'm making

00:14:05.199 an investment and I'm trying to get

00:14:07.480 ahead of where it's where where the

00:14:08.920 Market's going to be I always say I

00:14:10.240 don't want to I don't want to I don't

00:14:11.959 want to try to go where the Puck's going

00:14:13.600 to be I want to be there waiting for the

00:14:15.199 puck to arrive so I might be

00:14:17.959 early and but I don't think I'm wrong

00:14:20.680 and you know people might differ with

00:14:22.399 that but you know I'm like I said I'm

00:14:24.720 always going to bet on myself and and

00:14:26.360 bet on my instinct and I think that's

00:14:28.600 where it's heading

00:14:29.639 and any any loan officer that's that's

00:14:32.720 currently out there in Independent

00:14:34.519 Mortgage Banking space or the broker

00:14:37.519 space I promise you they've Revisited

00:14:39.880 comp either from a corporate level if

00:14:42.519 you're working for a banker or even you

00:14:45.079 self- evaluated as a broker and said am

00:14:47.959 I priced to stay in this market you know

00:14:50.800 am I at the right at the right price

00:14:53.360 point to be competitive yeah because um

00:14:56.160 you know that you're going to have to

00:14:58.079 you're going to have to continue to just

00:14:59.360 work for less but do more units it's

00:15:01.120 going to be a volume play yeah and I

00:15:03.639 think this is a very important lesson

00:15:05.120 for all of the leaders watching this

00:15:07.360 podcast which is U don't be afraid to

00:15:10.800 take a shortterm price hit for longterm

00:15:15.399 success and you're one of the Exemplar

00:15:17.839 of that yeah I mean I think that yeah I

00:15:20.839 mean I've had had a lot of conversations

00:15:23.160 with loan officers throughout my career

00:15:25.920 and you know the toughest one was always

00:15:28.279 like the compens ation conversation when

00:15:30.959 things got tough in the space I always

00:15:34.240 told people like my philosophy was like

00:15:36.279 I'm never going to tell you what you're

00:15:37.519 worth like I'm not going to tell you to

00:15:39.319 reduce your comp but the market might

00:15:42.000 tell you what you're worth and if you

00:15:43.480 have to keep asking for Price

00:15:45.839 concessions you need the company to lean

00:15:47.880 in 20 30 40 50 basis points that's

00:15:52.120 telling you that you can't sell the

00:15:54.680 market rate right so the Market's

00:15:57.199 telling you you're price too high so you

00:15:59.600 might want to reduce your compensation

00:16:01.440 and those were tough conversations to

00:16:03.040 have but you know I let people make

00:16:05.079 their own decision but and empowered

00:16:06.839 them but they understood at that point

00:16:08.360 in time that the amount of concessions

00:16:10.639 that they could come back and ask me for

00:16:12.199 was going to be limited and I think

00:16:14.000 that's just being transparent and being

00:16:15.600 a good leader is being honest with

00:16:17.199 people and I took a lot of pride in that

00:16:19.440 you know always being transparent

00:16:21.720 upfront here's how I see it you know and

00:16:25.399 the market will always tell you what

00:16:26.759 you're worth that's the bottom line the

00:16:29.040 market will always tell you what you're

00:16:30.720 worth that's something I'm going to

00:16:31.880 remember from from this really well

00:16:35.240 really well I like that you have these

00:16:37.399 short and succinct uh statements that

00:16:40.440 really have a lasting impact um

00:16:44.680 yeah the the thing I was going to ask

00:16:48.399 was well one related to hiring and the

00:16:51.800 other one related to operations so we've

00:16:54.639 had CEOs on the spot we've had um

00:16:57.720 producing branch manager

00:16:59.880 and uh all of them are thinking about

00:17:02.360 well how can I make my operation leaner

00:17:05.919 and here you are um being a price leader

00:17:10.480 which means that you have some sort of

00:17:12.160 like operational magic that you're

00:17:13.919 running like what would be your advice

00:17:16.119 to producing branch managers and CEOs

00:17:19.000 who want to run a leaner operation yeah

00:17:21.959 I mean I think you have to be Tech

00:17:24.400 forward you have to look for every Tech

00:17:26.439 Advantage you can find um you know you

00:17:30.000 and I have discussed this at length that

00:17:32.000 you know I've talked to you know a

00:17:33.880 couple of different you know CEOs that

00:17:35.960 I've worked for in the past and you know

00:17:39.400 I think over the last 10 years they've

00:17:40.840 put a lot of money into automation to

00:17:43.520 the back office right um underwriting

00:17:46.840 things like that um and I think that

00:17:49.679 what they found is all it's done is cost

00:17:51.840 them more money right because it's hard

00:17:54.640 to get rid of that human element I think

00:17:57.400 at the end of the day because at some

00:17:59.440 point that loan has to be sold off in

00:18:01.039 the secondary market and are you going

00:18:03.000 to trust you know a full automated

00:18:05.919 underwriting process to deliver that

00:18:08.120 loan to the secondary market and hope it

00:18:09.799 doesn't get bought back or if there's

00:18:11.720 not some defect in the loan that they

00:18:13.720 refuse to purchase it then you have to

00:18:15.880 sell it scratch and dent and take a

00:18:17.480 haircut so there's a lot of risk um with

00:18:21.320 investing I mean you have to invest to

00:18:24.240 be efficient so technology should exist

00:18:26.240 both in the back office but I think with

00:18:28.960 been missed is frontend technology and I

00:18:32.640 think people have tried um and one of

00:18:36.880 the things that I did was when I made

00:18:38.640 the decision to say I'm going to work

00:18:40.039 for Less I said I have to create a super

00:18:43.280 efficient system so we created

00:18:45.799 technology which you're aware of you

00:18:47.320 demoed it with us and I think it kind of

00:18:49.320 excited you app Catcher And um that was

00:18:53.799 um that was like the light bulb moment

00:18:56.400 for me to say gosh man I mean the 's a

00:18:59.000 lot of cool Tech on the front end of the

00:19:00.960 mortgage space but all of it leads to

00:19:03.760 more expense right I mean of course you

00:19:05.880 have to pull a credit report that's gone

00:19:08.039 up exponentially over the last you know

00:19:10.600 12 to 24 months you know I mean a credit

00:19:13.480 report for a joint borrower is over

00:19:18.039 $100 I mean so and there's a small

00:19:21.960 percentage chance that they might

00:19:23.840 actually qualify because the rates are

00:19:26.200 elevated right and then on top of it you

00:19:28.200 have the open banking platforms you can

00:19:30.240 do verification of deposits right you

00:19:33.000 could order a V all those things cost

00:19:36.320 money I mean you could be into a

00:19:38.120 transaction for $2

00:19:40.480 $300 and it may never see the closing

00:19:43.280 table right

00:19:44.799 so we built some technology saying like

00:19:47.799 Okay we're work for Less we also have to

00:19:49.559 figure out a way to produce a loan for

00:19:51.520 Less so the technology and I don't want

00:19:54.280 to get into too many details about it um

00:19:56.960 that that we're putting out there you

00:19:59.080 know into the universe hopefully at the

00:20:00.640 end of uh q1 here solves a lot of those

00:20:04.240 problems right and then you know

00:20:06.880 fortunately I ran into you Michael and I

00:20:09.760 was able to you know connect the dots

00:20:12.080 between like what you're doing from a

00:20:13.679 tech standpoint and together we said

00:20:15.960 holy cow you know you put these two

00:20:18.559 elements together we would have

00:20:20.159 something pretty dog on special and you

00:20:22.799 know I'm really grateful for the

00:20:24.039 opportunity to to be able to integrate

00:20:26.280 with Addie because I think it is a game

00:20:28.760 changing technology that's going to be

00:20:31.120 extraordinarily disruptive um and in a

00:20:34.240 good way right um so yeah you have to

00:20:38.200 have the tech if you're going to be

00:20:39.720 efficient and work for less and you know

00:20:41.919 I think we're proving that every single

00:20:43.919 day that we made the right decision so I

00:20:47.039 keep in mind haven't originated for a

00:20:49.320 number number of years and you know I

00:20:51.919 think we're doing better than average

00:20:53.600 right we've closed anywhere from you

00:20:55.960 know 15 to as as many as 21 22 loans you

00:21:00.480 know so um in a tough Market which I

00:21:03.159 think is pretty respectable and we're

00:21:05.559 doing it by being a price leader right

00:21:08.240 and also leveraging some of the best

00:21:10.440 technology I think that's that's in the

00:21:12.600 market it's only going to get better as

00:21:14.559 we start to integrate and with ADD and

00:21:17.320 other Integrations out there so we're

00:21:19.120 excited yeah it's a mutually beneficial

00:21:21.679 system the better Tech you have um you

00:21:23.880 get to run a leaner operation you get to

00:21:26.159 have more volume and then that's right

00:21:28.600 lets you lead more in in price and you

00:21:31.120 bring up a brilliant Point um by saying

00:21:34.200 that we've had experiments I call them

00:21:37.080 experiments done with some software

00:21:39.360 technologies that were seemingly

00:21:41.520 supposed to um reduce costs but all they

00:21:44.240 do is rack up cost like all the back

00:21:46.720 technology you got your underwriting

00:21:48.279 systems you got your compliance systems

00:21:50.279 um even like some servicing

00:21:52.320 systems back of a deck they've they've

00:21:55.080 done um all they've done is just rack up

00:21:58.720 more costs and what is left to

00:22:00.880 experiment with is something that lives

00:22:03.120 at the point of sale something that

00:22:04.600 lives in the origin origination side of

00:22:07.840 things and you've seen that um with all

00:22:11.039 of your Decades of experienceing

00:22:12.480 Industry that's where you see um the

00:22:15.279 puck is going 100% that's going to be

00:22:17.880 the biggest pickup right um it's going

00:22:20.440 to be Tech on the front end and you know

00:22:23.840 and and honestly I think that we rely in

00:22:25.919 the industry on Cycles right like refi

00:22:29.799 booms and I always use this other great

00:22:32.039 little phrase I always say you only know

00:22:33.720 the future based on your past experience

00:22:36.679 unless you're in the mortgage industry

00:22:38.120 you've probably heard me say it a

00:22:39.840 thousand times because we are just

00:22:43.000 absolute creatures of habit right um you

00:22:45.799 see it all the time you know I mean you

00:22:47.799 got to remember there's a run from about

00:22:49.640 2001 to you know 2022 is where the rates

00:22:53.799 were pre- doog on good there was some

00:22:56.000 short windows of challenges in there

00:22:59.039 but nothing like we've had you know over

00:23:01.400 the last two and a half three years

00:23:03.440 right um as we head into 25 so you know

00:23:08.480 I think companies are starting to figure

00:23:10.240 it out you know you don't need big brick

00:23:13.600 and mortar you don't need all this

00:23:15.480 bricks and stick if the pandemic taught

00:23:17.440 us anything you know you can still drive

00:23:19.799 culture through a teams meeting right

00:23:22.760 you know it used to drive me crazy as a

00:23:25.640 leader in the industry to to walk into a

00:23:28.120 branch to go where's Joey the guy that

00:23:30.720 needed the corner office with The View

00:23:33.240 today well we haven't se him in a couple

00:23:35.440 of weeks I'm like where's he at you know

00:23:39.000 I'm he must be out selling I'm going

00:23:41.320 like okay well that's great I hope he is

00:23:43.760 but Joey's done one transaction in the

00:23:46.200 last 30 days right like those are the

00:23:47.960 challenges in the mortgage space and

00:23:49.520 then of course people staff

00:23:51.520 inappropriately to accommodate people um

00:23:54.559 so I think the industry is figuring it

00:23:56.720 out and they're going through a reckon

00:23:59.159 and I don't think they're going to make

00:24:00.799 those same mistakes going forward I hope

00:24:03.080 they don't um I hope everybody's a

00:24:05.120 little more fiscally responsible because

00:24:07.000 you know the industry is very

00:24:08.919 socialistic the way it works in terms of

00:24:11.400 expense so you know you could be running

00:24:13.679 a great operation in you know Arizona

00:24:18.120 but you could have you know some other

00:24:20.320 guy you know halfway across the country

00:24:23.400 just tanking and ultimately that impacts

00:24:27.840 Revenue

00:24:29.120 um throughout the organization and

00:24:31.240 margins get pushed up right that's the I

00:24:34.559 think that's the reason why a lot of

00:24:36.000 people kind of left are starting to kind

00:24:38.039 of gravitate more towards the broker

00:24:39.720 space quite honestly is they want to be

00:24:42.039 able to control their expenses they want

00:24:44.480 to make the

00:24:45.720 decisions but they also have to be very

00:24:47.880 prudent about making the right you know

00:24:50.159 decisions when it comes to the right

00:24:52.360 technology right um what am I going to

00:24:55.399 invest in right I'm going this alone I

00:24:57.720 want to row my own about what's going to

00:24:59.840 be the right Tech stack for me

00:25:02.559 so and hopefully we'll be able to guide

00:25:04.880 some of those people through that

00:25:06.039 Michael you and I you know so I'm

00:25:08.039 excited about that yeah I hope so I I

00:25:10.840 had a a LinkedIn post the other day

00:25:13.000 about the amount of chaos happening like

00:25:15.320 we're seeing stuff happening on Capital

00:25:18.000 markets seen like stock prices with

00:25:20.799 Fanny and Freddy we're I saw that post

00:25:23.520 and DC um with um regulation we're

00:25:27.399 seeing stuff happening and Silicon

00:25:29.039 Valley with tech stuff after with what

00:25:30.760 you're doing like the shift to um Brook

00:25:33.320 ridges and the number of L industry like

00:25:37.080 so much is happening and it seems

00:25:40.360 like how do you feel about all of these

00:25:43.840 um chaotic events like I would say that

00:25:46.279 that are happening right now like yeah I

00:25:49.360 mean I think that everything like I said

00:25:52.760 kind of happens in Cycles right um you

00:25:55.520 know I think the mortgage industry went

00:25:57.279 through their their disruption and you

00:26:00.399 know after the the mortgage meltdown

00:26:02.559 right the housing crisis of you know 708

00:26:05.480 you know we went through compensation

00:26:07.360 reform um we went through disclosure

00:26:10.240 reform um there was a lot of changes

00:26:12.520 that we went through that were that were

00:26:14.440 painful so um when I look at today's Ro

00:26:18.520 to your point all the disruption that's

00:26:20.279 happening I look at what's happened in

00:26:22.159 the real estate industry right now with

00:26:24.080 Nar

00:26:25.679 right I mean and and S

00:26:28.880 I mean that's a pretty big disruption

00:26:31.240 happening there right um so I think

00:26:34.919 we've we've we've taken our licks in the

00:26:36.640 mortgage industry I I hope we're

00:26:38.840 learning from our past experience and

00:26:41.000 we're not going to make the same

00:26:41.960 mistakes we made in the past um I think

00:26:44.919 that people that are buying homes now

00:26:46.480 qualify so I don't think we're going to

00:26:48.200 have a market crash um I don't think

00:26:51.000 we're going to see housing values tank

00:26:53.760 um you know I think people move today if

00:26:56.799 it's you know job related uh maybe

00:27:00.240 there's some sort of unexpected life

00:27:02.760 event that requires them to move into a

00:27:05.919 single story or relocate you know closer

00:27:08.799 to family um you know those are the

00:27:11.279 reasons people are selling um you know

00:27:14.320 it doesn't make a lot of sense to sell

00:27:16.480 to downsize to only potentially pay more

00:27:21.320 for the mortgage payment right and

00:27:23.000 that's pretty bitter pill to swallow so

00:27:24.960 I think most people are kind of just

00:27:26.120 hunkering down so um there there has

00:27:28.559 been a lot of disruption there is a lot

00:27:30.120 of events happening but you know we can

00:27:32.720 only control we can control and uh I

00:27:35.399 think that that Nar situation is going

00:27:37.279 be really interesting to follow over the

00:27:38.880 next uh you know year or two it's new

00:27:41.960 yeah so I don't know we necessarily have

00:27:43.960 seen the the total impact there and I

00:27:46.039 have some thoughts on that for sure so

00:27:48.159 yeah do share do share well I mean I

00:27:52.080 think it's I I think that you know I

00:27:54.440 don't think it's going to have much of

00:27:55.600 an impact in the mortgage space minimal

00:27:58.240 and I and I I'll maybe Circle back to

00:28:00.159 that but you know I think when you go on

00:28:02.559 a listing presentation if you're a real

00:28:04.360 estate agent you hope everybody kind of

00:28:07.320 toes the line right everybody's selling

00:28:09.799 it the same way right you know and if

00:28:12.000 people aren't familiar with the

00:28:13.159 settlement you know it was always just

00:28:15.120 assumed that the seller would pay the

00:28:17.640 buyer's

00:28:18.919 commission right so that was a whole

00:28:21.600 prompted this lawsuit and you know you

00:28:25.240 put it in MLS and you you listed the

00:28:27.600 property you had a 1% co- broke on there

00:28:30.559 the property wouldn't get any traffic

00:28:32.279 because agents would you know just you

00:28:35.200 know unintentionally not show their

00:28:37.559 client maybe that home right that was in

00:28:39.519 their best interest um and it was just

00:28:42.080 assumed the seller was going to pay

00:28:43.519 their commission so now that's changed

00:28:46.559 Buyer Agents can't even like show

00:28:49.240 somebody a home until the customer

00:28:51.240 signed a buyer broker agreement um

00:28:54.480 that's a pretty big shift right so

00:28:57.480 imagine have it to sit down and talk to

00:29:00.120 a customer and say hey I'm happy you

00:29:03.480 found the house on Zillow and you

00:29:05.120 contacted me or you found the house here

00:29:07.559 there everywhere but before I can show

00:29:09.600 it to you you have to sign this buyer

00:29:11.880 broker agreement the stipulate you're

00:29:13.279 going to pay me whatever two and a half

00:29:15.159 3% and then I can show you some homes

00:29:18.640 they've never had to have that

00:29:19.960 conversation right the conversation was

00:29:23.000 always don't worry about it you know the

00:29:25.760 seller pays my side it's it's a given

00:29:29.159 don't sweat it right in fact it's in MLS

00:29:31.880 it's right here it says right here

00:29:32.919 they're going to pay me two and a half

00:29:34.000 percent don't have to worry about it and

00:29:35.480 you didn't have to have the agreement

00:29:36.440 sign you to show people houses so if the

00:29:38.919 listing agents and everybody bands

00:29:41.440 together in the real estate community

00:29:44.279 and sells it the right way I don't think

00:29:45.919 there's going to be much disruption but

00:29:48.399 I think you could have you know that

00:29:50.519 that industry start to fracture a little

00:29:52.279 bit I mean what's the obligation of the

00:29:54.240 listing agent on the listing

00:29:55.559 presentation you're trying to win the

00:29:57.440 listing

00:29:58.679 to get the house sold right I mean I

00:30:02.200 might just go in there and tell I'm like

00:30:03.519 yeah you know end of the day you know

00:30:05.159 for me to list your house it's two and a

00:30:06.480 half percent I'm not going to talk about

00:30:09.000 you know the other two and a half

00:30:10.320 percent that's going to come in with the

00:30:11.640 offer not to mention the potential

00:30:14.080 concessions I mean if agents start going

00:30:16.640 down that route um it is going to cause

00:30:19.480 some disruption so hopefully they all

00:30:20.919 stick together as a community and they

00:30:23.240 get through it together um and I think

00:30:25.760 every lisening agent there's no such

00:30:27.360 thing as just aist Eng anymore I think

00:30:29.039 that they they do both sides so they do

00:30:31.200 understand but you know when you start

00:30:33.880 looking at you know a 5% commission to

00:30:36.320 sell a house on top of every single

00:30:39.679 buyer now needing you know some sort of

00:30:43.120 concessions or not every single a large

00:30:45.240 chunk of buyers needing concessions be

00:30:47.360 it one two three or 4% of the sales

00:30:50.559 price um you know it could cost that

00:30:53.279 seller anywhere from maybe as little as

00:30:56.240 five to as much as

00:30:58.440 8 n% or more in some cases so I I just

00:31:04.240 think the commission thing is going to

00:31:05.760 get looked at heavily when you're a

00:31:07.440 seller because it's now they're more

00:31:09.120 acutely aware of it right depending on

00:31:11.159 how the Le agent presents it um and

00:31:14.120 maybe lend maybe Lo's have to revisit

00:31:16.320 their compensation and say do I need to

00:31:18.559 reduce my comp so I can lean in and give

00:31:20.960 a lender credit that could potentially

00:31:23.159 be the impact but that could also win

00:31:25.440 you business by being a good partner to

00:31:27.519 to your real estate partner in your

00:31:28.720 referral sources right so um I think

00:31:32.399 that's where I see the impact maybe a

00:31:34.679 little bit in the mortgage space but

00:31:36.399 pretty unlikely most most likely it'll

00:31:39.720 be minimal change I think consumer

00:31:41.600 Behavior could change though yes yeah um

00:31:45.399 amazing

00:31:47.120 so the reason why people listen to the

00:31:49.760 Pod is for these expert breakdowns like

00:31:52.760 these so you told me

00:31:55.919 exactly some potential things could

00:31:58.200 happen on the listing side you've told

00:32:01.320 me some things that happen on the on the

00:32:03.080 buyer side like the the agent side and

00:32:05.799 the buyer broker side and even on the

00:32:08.159 mortgage side and potentially on the

00:32:09.440 consumer side so it's all of these

00:32:11.320 moving pieces and it's just one

00:32:13.880 settlement so just one settlement

00:32:15.840 affecting all of these moving PES I

00:32:18.399 think there could be more um you know

00:32:20.159 there like couple more I've heard some

00:32:22.919 other things happening um you know I I I

00:32:26.279 don't know that I can really speak to

00:32:27.639 them with with a great level of

00:32:30.240 confidence because it's so new but I'm

00:32:32.039 hearing there's there's different

00:32:33.360 lawsuits popping up now that are class

00:32:35.360 action that could potentially impact the

00:32:38.480 real estate industry further but you

00:32:40.840 know um historically you know you could

00:32:44.720 see a shift in consumer Behavior which

00:32:48.000 could potentially benefit the mortgage

00:32:50.799 industry um you know historically the

00:32:53.399 customers would go to their a real

00:32:55.600 estate agent say I want to buy a house

00:32:57.360 right you got got the inventory you've

00:32:58.880 got the asset I want to buy that seems

00:33:01.559 like a logical place to start right but

00:33:04.320 now all of a sudden that conversation is

00:33:06.760 well before I can start to show you

00:33:08.200 those assets you need to sign this

00:33:10.159 agreement for two and a half percent

00:33:13.080 saying you know I'm going to get paid

00:33:14.960 that amount right like my my goal is I

00:33:17.720 always get the seller to pay it but

00:33:19.000 that's the agreement that's the it's

00:33:20.440 legally binding so maybe the consumer at

00:33:23.600 that point steps away and says hey wait

00:33:25.159 a minute you know I need to go get

00:33:28.000 qualify first before I keepit myself to

00:33:29.919 paying this agent 2 and a half% right

00:33:32.200 there could be a shift um in that

00:33:34.760 direction I don't think anybody in the

00:33:36.480 mortgage space is is going to um

00:33:39.200 necessarily Market that um because I

00:33:41.960 don't think that would be good for

00:33:43.000 business but it could just be a natural

00:33:45.799 shift that happens in the marketplace

00:33:48.200 probably low probability but you know it

00:33:51.600 just it just depends on how this thing

00:33:53.440 all shakes out at the end of the day

00:33:54.639 it's just too new to tell and if

00:33:56.120 everybody plays nice in the sandbox

00:33:57.919 together right so we're very early in a

00:34:03.320 multi- deade super

00:34:05.919 cycle yeah yeah very very yeah exactly

00:34:09.440 exactly yeah it's been it's been a wild

00:34:11.800 ride for sure the last few years that's

00:34:14.119 for sure yeah um we didn't get to talk

00:34:17.280 about AI a lot but um I want to set the

00:34:19.960 tone for the rest of the episodes coming

00:34:23.159 this season this is the new year your

00:34:25.320 episode would be the first to go out and

00:34:27.760 and um as Leaders producing managers and

00:34:31.359 uh CEOs are thinking about well what

00:34:33.040 should I focus on this year I want to

00:34:34.760 take a different spin on it and not ask

00:34:36.520 you like what they should focus on but

00:34:38.440 what do you think will happen like some

00:34:40.760 predictions by the end of this year like

00:34:42.960 if you would make two to three

00:34:45.199 predictions

00:34:46.800 man that's a tough one um yeah I mean I

00:34:50.918 I I think um it's going to be more of

00:34:52.918 the same I don't think volume's going to

00:34:54.599 see a massive increase in pickup I think

00:34:57.880 are going to remain relatively the same

00:35:00.560 um I think there is going to be a lot of

00:35:03.440 people exploring you know technology

00:35:06.599 that's going to make the front end more

00:35:08.440 efficient um I think you're going to see

00:35:11.640 flashes of of opportunity in the

00:35:14.599 mortgage space um you know flashes of

00:35:17.160 opportunities to maybe have a little bit

00:35:18.640 of a refi run uh maybe get a a month or

00:35:21.920 two were purchases tick up because the

00:35:24.640 rates dropped um

00:35:28.240 I I think that you know I I hope you

00:35:31.280 know mortgage leaders and uh you know

00:35:35.119 Lo's are following thought leaders

00:35:38.880 surrounding AI because I do firmly

00:35:41.839 believe that it is going to be you know

00:35:45.400 disruptive but I don't think it's ever

00:35:48.000 going to necessarily replace the entire

00:35:50.160 sales cycle like we talked about of the

00:35:52.880 loan but you have to be in the no

00:35:55.520 because it is moving like a freight

00:35:57.640 train and as you know I read a lot about

00:36:00.480 it I get the benefit of being able to

00:36:02.800 talk to you and pick up the phone and go

00:36:04.160 hey Michael I just saw this what do you

00:36:05.520 think of this technology you know like a

00:36:07.400 it's like pool's gold or whatever it's

00:36:08.760 great or whatever you're just in the

00:36:10.760 know and like your credentials are so

00:36:13.000 impressive I mean I think that's almost

00:36:16.160 a better question for you on the tech

00:36:18.480 side of things where do you see it going

00:36:20.359 because I think you're like an absolute

00:36:22.920 thought leader um in Ai and I mean thank

00:36:27.760 God we had that cup of coffee you know

00:36:29.720 almost a year ago right I mean feel very

00:36:32.520 fortunate and um I think where we're

00:36:35.720 headed together on our some of our our

00:36:38.800 our Ventures here is going to be

00:36:40.359 exciting and I think it's going to be

00:36:42.480 very impactful for the the entire space

00:36:45.200 yeah for sure I'm gonna agree with all

00:36:48.280 of what you've said and um so I don't

00:36:51.640 think much is going to

00:36:53.000 change the time it changes like there's

00:36:55.680 this sort of like Flock mentality where

00:36:58.119 the time of changes is going to be a

00:36:59.839 huge influx of people that drive towards

00:37:02.359 the change right now it's only a couple

00:37:04.359 of people it's going to take a couple

00:37:05.920 months 24 18 24 months and then

00:37:09.440 everyone's going to have the wakeup call

00:37:11.520 and um start adopting all these uh

00:37:14.599 technologies that we're talking about

00:37:16.119 here like rates are not going to change

00:37:18.480 much that we already know so yeah I

00:37:21.640 think it's an exciting time uh I'm

00:37:23.680 really happy to have friends like you in

00:37:26.319 the industry yes um with a lot of

00:37:29.800 experience that I can call up anytime

00:37:31.599 and tell me exactly what's what's

00:37:32.880 happening I have the technology

00:37:34.160 experience but I don't have um the

00:37:37.079 decades and Decades of market experience

00:37:38.960 that you bring to the table and I'm

00:37:40.839 actually very excited to have people

00:37:43.240 like you uh in my network well that

00:37:45.480 means a lot coming from you Michael

00:37:47.000 because I hold you in the highest regard

00:37:48.800 I mean I think you're an absolute Dynamo

00:37:52.720 um laser focus driven I mean you know

00:37:56.359 you'll sleep in an air if it if that's

00:37:58.560 what it takes to get a sale done right

00:38:00.720 or you know move the needle for your

00:38:02.520 company and you know that's the

00:38:04.319 suffering and the pain that a lot of

00:38:06.400 people are unwilling to go through but

00:38:08.240 those are the scars are going to make

00:38:09.640 you great one day and you're going to

00:38:11.760 you're going to leave a huge impact on

00:38:13.119 it and

00:38:14.119 I'm thankful every single day I get to

00:38:17.160 partner up with a guy like you and and

00:38:19.800 along with some of the other folks

00:38:21.640 involved in our Venture and I think we

00:38:23.760 just have a really Dynamic team of

00:38:25.440 people all rowing in the same direction

00:38:27.520 ction you know looking to really bring

00:38:30.400 value to the industry and make make the

00:38:33.240 experience better for the loan officer

00:38:34.760 and the

00:38:35.599 consumer amazing well darl how can our

00:38:39.280 listeners find you yeah I mean the best

00:38:41.800 way to find me is on LinkedIn I mean

00:38:43.800 just Daryl M at LinkedIn you know I mean

00:38:46.680 so just locate me there um I spell it d

00:38:50.200 a r y l e so there's not a lot of daryls

00:38:53.240 out there like that certainly um but

00:38:55.839 connect with me on LinkedIn i' love

00:38:57.800 talking industry shop uh happy to talk

00:39:01.160 to anybody about it at any time and just

00:39:03.480 connect with me love to love to I

00:39:05.599 respond pretty quickly to most messages

00:39:07.160 as well that's how we connected Michael

00:39:09.000 so it's a great way to connect so that's

00:39:11.599 where I put a majority of my emphasis

00:39:13.440 Focus so I'll put your LinkedIn

00:39:16.440 information in the description on

00:39:18.200 YouTube um so check it out um folks this

00:39:21.400 has been another very insightful episode

00:39:23.960 of the loone officers Playbook podcast I

00:39:26.319 hope you got your notebooks out out cuz

00:39:27.839 there were lots and lots of golden

00:39:29.560 nuggets in this episode and I really

00:39:31.319 hope it helps you enhance your business

00:39:33.440 so until next time thank you so much see

00:39:36.280 you

00:39:37.200 bye-bye bye